N55 is better than N54

[7plagues]

Again like I said before more power for less doesn't define better, because it took time for the n54 to catch up, especially since the E to F series generation swap essentially reset all development.

Power is not an indicator of better, potential is, technological improvement is, reliability is. When you look at these factors it removes engine development time frame out of the way and shows you true potential, and the n54 will not be able to stack up to the F series n55 all things considered. If you compare via power then by that logic the n54 is better than the s58, b58, and s55 which isn't even remotely a possibility. But later down the road the n55 will be so much better in terms of tuning, fuelling, and even turbo upgrade options I would not be surprised if you started to see the n55 being faster.

As I said before, your use of the word "Better" varies however you want it to fit your argument. Which makes no sense. Sure the N55 is more reliable, so are a lot of other cars. If it makes you feel better saying the n55 is superior to the n54 great, but until I see BETTER times than the n54 I won't agree. Either way its two old engines so the argument is pointless and only matters to people who have stuck to the platform.

[Lightning]

Again like I said before more power for less doesn't define better

Yes it is. If you goal is power, the N54 is better.
Mind the word "goal". Pick the engine that is right for you. There are valid points to go for either engine.
But even then! As previously stated in the topic, not all N55's are alike (fuel pump, cast crank, etc) so bluntly stating that the N55 is better than an N54 is plain wrong.

Besides that, this topic is wasted space. Ofcourse a 2011 engine, which was developed as the successor of a 2006 engine, has a lot of improvements over the old engine.
What's next? A "B58 is better than an N55" topic? It's kind of stating the obvious.

[Torgus]

Certain models of the N55 are superior to the N54 once you remove the factory FI and install a big single should be the title

[F87Source]

Yes it is. If you goal is power, the N54 is better.
Mind the word "goal". Pick the engine that is right for you. There are valid points to go for either engine.
But even then! As previously stated in the topic, not all N55's are alike (fuel pump, cast crank, etc) so bluntly stating that the N55 is better than an N54 is plain wrong.

Besides that, this topic is wasted space. Ofcourse a 2011 engine, which was developed as the successor of a 2006 engine, has a lot of improvements over the old engine.
What's next? A "B58 is better than an N55" topic? It's kind of stating the obvious.

First off I meant to say F series n55, but it's not included in the title because sticky created this thread based on a quote I made in another thread about the m2, m235i, MPE models and x4m49i having forged cranks.


Next irregardless of power goals the n55 will be superior, how do you make power? Fuelling, tuning, turbos, supporting mods, engine building, etc. The n55 currently has or is on the trajectory to have better support than the n54 in every single one of these areas. On top of that the improvements on the n55 will enable it to make this power more reliably and like a factory car, unlike how power n54s which often have weird running symptoms due to high power.


Next I didn't create this thread so don't blame me for it being a waste of space.


Yeah of course the b58 is better than the n55 in every way - except for the high G force oiling system for now. But for the n54 owners they always refuse to see the truth about what makes an engine better, and it's a whole lot more than power because any engine can make power if you have the other parts (fuelling, tuning, sipporting mods) dialed in. The n54 only has 1 thing going for it, alot of power for cheap. Not reliable power not smooth factory like power, just power for cheap.

[F87Source]

Certain models of the N55 are superior to the N54 once you remove the factory FI and install a big single should be the title

I meant F series but I didn't create this thread so yeah. The E series n55 only has better reliability. The F series with cast crank would still imo be vastly better than an n54 just for tuning ability alone.

[F87Source]

I also must add before getting acused of being an n54 hater, I'm not I would get a 1m (almost did get a 1m but could not find a white one or solve the oiling issues) along side my m2, or even a b58 supra (heavily contemplated trading my m2 for one but again oiling issues on track, and I wanted a manual).

In truth Im a fan of every platform, I just wanted to get the truth out there technological advances between engine generations are real and technology always gets better.

The only reason why I bother to debate in this thread is because I'm tired of hearing "the n54 is the best engine bmw ever made", or "the s55 is almost as good as the n54 but the n54 is fully forged" - when it's not**, "maybe the b58 is finally a true successor to the n54". I just wanted anyone reading this thread to know what the n55 improved on from the n54, and why the F series generation improved on this even further it makes it superior to the n54.

This is why sticky probably made this thread because he probably hears this too.

[F87Source]

Oh if you're wondering what I think the best engine bmw ever made in terms of technology for the era (of course the modern day engines have better technology, are more reliable and make more power safely) I think it's the s85. How can you beat a high revving NA V10 engine, I spkred from f1.

[7plagues]

I also must add before getting acused of being an n54 hater, I'm not I would get a 1m (almost did get a 1m but could not find a white one or solve the oiling issues) along side my m2, or even a b58 supra (heavily contemplated trading my m2 for one but again oiling issues on track, and I wanted a manual).

In truth Im a fan of every platform, I just wanted to get the truth out there technological advances between engine generations are real and technology always gets better.

The only reason why I bother to debate in this thread is because I'm tired of hearing "the n54 is the best engine bmw ever made", or "the s55 is almost as good as the n54 but the n54 is fully forged" - when it's not**, "maybe the b58 is finally a true successor to the n54". I just wanted anyone reading this thread to know what the n55 improved on from the n54, and why the F series generation improved on this even further it makes it superior to the n54.

This is why sticky probably made this thread because he probably hears this too.

[F87Source]

https://i.imgur.com/iB5xwIJ.gif

It's not an opinion when I am bringing cold hard facts to the table. Alot of specialized bmw shops do make it clear that the engines that give them the most trouble is indeed the n20 (timing chain problematic versions) and n54 so take it how you will.




Well when you can come up with reasons why the n54's pneumatic waste gate control is better than the electronic waste gate, the rotary hpfp is better than the piston style hpfp, why the vanos system is better than the valvetronic system, why the n54's limited factory ecu is better than the new F series ecu, why having no choice but to run pre turbine O2 sensors on an n54 is superior, why having to deal with O2 sensor fouling is better than never having to deal with it, and so on so forth then let me know.

Don't forget the n55 in general just stage 3 turbo upgrades, and I know some m2 guys that are starting to push the boundary on them with new fuelling solutions, bleeding edge ecutek (one of the largest tuning companies in the world with a team of super engineers behind them bringing anti lag, flex fuel, on the fly map switching, canbus integration to the F series) canbus integration that the n54 could only dream of getting with a stock ecu, and large EFR turbos (such as a 9280) running on factory boost control mechanisms so you will get OEM like drivability unlike the n54. So when the N55 shortly starts making more power than the n54 (it will with better tuning, better boost control, and better fuelling - you can even run canbus controlled sequential Port injection with solid safeties in play so real legitmate safe PI) then that will complete the talking point.




Either way I never wanted to start this debate or thread (I just wanted to point some things out on another thread) because I don't envy creating divide in the bmw community. If anything I want the bmw community to stick together and support vendors because that is the only way more technology will come to this platform, otherwise it will slowly die off like the mercedes cla 45 amg I had before this. Like I said before I don't hate the n54 - I just want people to realize that rumours surrounding the n55 being inferior is not true.


Ok other than that I said what I had to say and will probably leave this thread now unless something meaningful comes up.

[7plagues]

It's not an opinion when I am bringing cold hard facts to the table. Alot of specialized bmw shops do make it clear that the engines that give them the most trouble is indeed the n20 (timing chain problematic versions) and n54 so take it how you will.




Well when you can come up with reasons why the n54's pneumatic waste gate control is better than the electronic waste gate, the rotary hpfp is better than the piston style hpfp, why the vanos system is better than the valvetronic system, why the n54's limited factory ecu is better than the new F series ecu, why having no choice but to run pre turbine O2 sensors on an n54 is superior, why having to deal with O2 sensor fouling is better than never having to deal with it, and so on so forth then let me know.

Don't forget the n55 in general just stage 3 turbo upgrades, and I know some m2 guys that are starting to push the boundary on them with new fuelling solutions, bleeding edge ecutek (one of the largest tuning companies in the world with a team of super engineers behind them bringing anti lag, flex fuel, on the fly map switching, canbus integration to the F series) canbus integration that the n54 could only dream of getting with a stock ecu, and large EFR turbos (such as a 9280) running on factory boost control mechanisms so you will get OEM like drivability unlike the n54. So when the N55 shortly starts making more power than the n54 (it will with better tuning, better boost control, and better fuelling - you can even run canbus controlled sequential Port injection with solid safeties in play so real legitmate safe PI) then that will complete the talking point.




Either way I never wanted to start this debate or thread (I just wanted to point some things out on another thread) because I don't envy creating divide in the bmw community. If anything I want the bmw community to stick together and support vendors because that is the only way more technology will come to this platform, otherwise it will slowly die off like the mercedes cla 45 amg I had before this. Like I said before I don't hate the n54 - I just want people to realize that rumours surrounding the n55 being inferior is not true.


Ok other than that I said what I had to say and will probably leave this thread now unless something meaningful comes up.

You are putting a lot of faith in the community to develop on an old engine, stuck only in a BMW. Especially since the B58 is out now. Seems to me like the N55 will just get left behind. Maybe if the N55 was in a toyota it would get some serious work done. Anyway results speak for themselves. I'll see if I notice any N55s setting records in a year.

[Torgus]

Honest question, is there any performance records the N55 has over the N54 currently?

[7plagues]

Honest question, is there any performance records the N55 has over the N54 currently?

I did some light searching and didn't find any. Definitely nothing 1/2 mile.

[F87Source]

You are putting a lot of faith in the community to develop on an old engine, stuck only in a BMW. Especially since the B58 is out now. Seems to me like the N55 will just get left behind. Maybe if the N55 was in a toyota it would get some serious work done. Anyway results speak for themselves. I'll see if I notice any N55s setting records in a year.

Like I said in the first few posts (that you likely skipped over) the F series chassis is what benefits the n55, alot of the tuning/canbus is similar enough it can be carried over. The fuelling system is similar enough hpfps are shared except the baseplate. Suspension too etc. The F series n55 is also finally getting older and more accessible (price still is high and not quite n54 dirt cheap yet) so more young people will be able to buy it and mod it, this is why the n54 had so much support. This is transitioning to the n55 now and it's eveident with how much new stuff is coming.


For records pretty much the track records are n55, look up tyspeeds m2. Factory bmw race cars and edurance cars, n54 was excluded from the factory race cars.


For straight line times not yet, the F series is still not cheap enough for the mass market second owners yet.


Also the F series just recently got:
- fuelling
- bigger than ps2
- good tuning (ecutek just arrived and bm3 is releasing their flex fuel, anti lag, map switching soon, same for mhd) so tuning is still developing.
- upgraded raditors
- large race core intercoolers
- drag shocks
- brake conversion for drag radials (this is huge because F series came with large m sport brakes making it hard for drag radials to fit)
- still no drive shafts yet, or axles

Overall developments were recent and still progressing, there's still so much in the works. So give it some time for the F series to get a bit cheaper and more mods to come out and you'll see the results. You've seen what the S55 can do, super large efr single turbo n55's will do similar. The n54 had the benefit of a less sophisticated ECU encryption and tuning from early on, the F series is just getting started. Give it time and you'll see what it's capable of.

Like I said if you look at it from a theoretical point of view (for now) what do you need to go fast: good tuning, boost control and integration, fuelling, supporting mods - the F series n55 does this better than the n54 so it's only a matter of time until the n55 starts breaking records, these developments on the F series were so new it'll be some time before times catch up.


Note: the top n54 records are mostly shop cars with hundreds of thousands of dollars in them. Give the n55 some time and you'll see what it can do, there's already an m2 guy going balls to the walls pushing developments ln fuelling past what's available and already making 600 whp+ di only on an efr 7670 with stock like driveability, he's going even larger soon. But since he's bleeding edge more developments will be needed.

[7plagues]

Like I said in the first few posts (that you likely skipped over) the F series chassis is what benefits the n55, alot of the tuning/canbus is similar enough it can be carried over. The fuelling system is similar enough hpfps are shared except the baseplate. Suspension too etc. The F series n55 is also finally getting older and more accessible (price still is high and not quite n54 dirt cheap yet) so more young people will be able to buy it and mod it, this is why the n54 had so much support. This is transitioning to the n55 now and it's eveident with how much new stuff is coming.


For records pretty much the track records are n55, look up tyspeeds m2. Factory bmw race cars and edurance cars, n54 was excluded from the factory race cars.


For straight line times not yet, the F series is still not cheap enough for the mass market second owners yet.


Also the F series just recently got:
- fuelling
- bigger than ps2
- good tuning (ecutek just arrived and bm3 is releasing their flex fuel, anti lag, map switching soon, same for mhd) so tuning is still developing.
- upgraded raditors
- large race core intercoolers
- drag shocks
- brake conversion for drag radials (this is huge because F series came with large m sport brakes making it hard for drag radials to fit)
- still no drive shafts yet, or axles

Overall developments were recent and still progressing, there's still so much in the works. So give it some time for the F series to get a bit cheaper and more mods to come out and you'll see the results. You've seen what the S55 can do, super large efr single turbo n55's will do similar. The n54 had the benefit of a less sophisticated ECU encryption and tuning from early on, the F series is just getting started. Give it time and you'll see what it's capable of.

Like I said if you look at it from a theoretical point of view (for now) what do you need to go fast: good tuning, boost control and integration, fuelling, supporting mods - the F series n55 does this better than the n54 so it's only a matter of time until the n55 starts breaking records, these developments on the F series were so new it'll be some time before times catch up.


Note: the top n54 records are mostly shop cars with hundreds of thousands of dollars in them. Give the n55 some time and you'll see what it can do, there's already an m2 guy going balls to the walls pushing developments ln fuelling past what's available and already making 600 whp+ di only on an efr 7670 with stock like driveability, he's going even larger soon. But since he's bleeding edge more developments will be needed.

yea I skim what you write cause you just droll on about all these things that don't matter. Post that dudes M2 times, I'm done researching a dead platform lol. A lot of n54 cars put down some decent 1/2 mile times are personally owned.

"The F series n55 is also finally getting older and more accessible (price still is high and not quite n54 dirt cheap yet) so more young people will be able to buy it and mod it, this is why the n54 had so much support. "

This statement is so wrong its not even funny. The N54 had a boat load of support way before it got cheap. If you think having a super cheap price is going to help the aftermarket scene you are wrong. Cheaper cars, people get cheap and don't pay for mods. Good luck. Done with this theoretical subject.

[F87Source]

yea I skim what you write cause you just droll on about all these things that don't matter. Post that dudes M2 times, I'm done researching a dead platform lol. A lot of n54 cars put down some decent 1/2 mile times are personally owned.

"The F series n55 is also finally getting older and more accessible (price still is high and not quite n54 dirt cheap yet) so more young people will be able to buy it and mod it, this is why the n54 had so much support. "

This statement is so wrong its not even funny. The N54 had a boat load of support way before it got cheap. If you think having a super cheap price is going to help the aftermarket scene you are wrong. Cheaper cars, people get cheap and don't pay for mods. Good luck. Done with this theoretical subject.

The n54 only has support because the ECU was easy to unlock for flashing early on, and the fuelling system supported a but more power - like I said.

When cars get older younger people who are willing to mod jump into the scene and thus more incentive to make mods. Look how much support/parts the n55 is getting now vs. even in 2014-2016. If anything the n54 is a dying platform, tuning has stagnated, no new game changing parts are coming into play - just revised parts of the same thing.


The m2 guys car hasn't hit the track yet, there's still alot of development going on. Like I said I have zero clue what good "times" are because I track my cars I don't drag race or do straight line stuff. If I cared about that my money would be in the Audi rs3 or ttrs platform going 9 second quarter miles and 200 mph in half mile events.


Btw I only "droll" facts, you just don't like hearing them. It's funny because n54 guys don't even like admitting the b58 is superior and bring back the same stale talking points about records and power output, the answer to that is just wait, the important developments (hpfps upgrades were deemed impossible just a few years ago, and drag brake conversions just came out allowing F series guys with m sport brakes to fit real grippy tires) just started to occur. Also high power output means nothing if it's not reliable and comes with huge sacrifices, and the F series n55 and newer engines bring both high power output and dependable factory like power delivery to the table.

[F87Source]

Btw since you can only look at things from a power perspective, compare the F series n55 vs n54 in the following ways:

1) FBO: a FBO F series n55 even with an ots map makes clean, smooth consistent power zero issues. An n54 will often have misfires, 30ff codes, waste gate rattle etc.

2) 500 whp upgraded turbos: Again the n55 will make smooth factory like power, the n54 will often misfire, stutter, and run into driveability issues.

3) 600-700 whp: same story smooth factory like power on the n55, the engine bay looks stock with the same factory turbo placement and boost control. An n54 will now start fowling o2 sensors, still have driveability issues like misfires, stutters, and half check engine lights with even more consistency. If you go single turbo on the n54 then you now bring heat to the top of the engine bay where you don't want it, so you have even more limited turbo option.

4) surpassing 700 whp: the same will occur as the above situations n55 running like factory with better tuning solutions, better boost control, and better fuelling. And since the F series n55 has so much clearance by the passenger frame rail you can even run an efr 9280 in that spot so factory turbo mounting for a 1k HP turbo, shorter runners means faster spool too. And with the efr you get a built in diverter valve and stock ewg control. No need for top mounts and external waste gates and standalone ecus to complicate tuning and boost control further adding to the potential of driveability issues. Then with a potential s55 fuelling setup and upgraded injectors watch and see super high power on DI alone, or sequential canbus controlled full safety PI.


So how is the n54 better? It simply isn't in any way, the only talking point the n54 has is for now it's faster. But that's a weak talking point because serious mods for the n55 only just came out.


Like I said just wait, late stage tuning, turbo upgrades, and fuelling are just starting to arrive. Most F series guys were also restricted to fricken street tires for drag use because no drag wheels would fit properly on the m sport brakes, the m2 guys especially with their 370mm rotors.

[rev210]

All 4 of your points are quite weak.
Each make assumptions that are really jusy hasty generalisations.
Let me highlight what I mean.
1) There is a very clear path to smooth FBO and OTS tunes on N54. The prerequisites for this are the same for any car not jusy N54/55 but, all vehicles. Unless you are arguing that there have been zero cases of poorly maintained , dodgy tuners and FBO parts applied.
The development of tunes have been at FBO 'smooth' for a long time.
2) as above.
3) i make that power with twins in the factory location. My car runs 10s on street tyres, goes around corners with massive upgraded brakes and I daily it , pick up the kids in it. Low mount turbo kits have been around for the N54 for ages.
4) lots more assumptions here , Im also going to point out that at those power levels , regardless of car /brand "factory like" is a relative term . You have a very long list of mods to make a 1000hp car 'relatively' reliable with a far more frequent service and mechanical failure intervals purely from the laws of thermo dynamics. People who dont know better run around saying 1000hp cars are trouble free. I can tell you 700whp is also in that spectrum
The EFR turbos is a whole other topic you raise and yes you can run them on N54s . The internal gate setup on that 9280 is ok but, you wont see it make its power potenti on a 3L, you will be switching it to external.
There are plenty of other turbos Id be thinking a better choice for the 3L. Please keep in mind there are folk running low mount 1k+ turbos around on N54 you might not have realised that.

All your other assertions about faster spool etc are incorrect, do you really thing the factory manifold is the peak of flow design for 1000+HP. This is a system we are talking about . At 1000whp you are going to want to pull that N55 head off and port it and so on, maybe including sleaving the block (how much stronger is the N55 block? I have heard its weaker). Now have you considered any differences between the n54 and 55 there? Perhpas not? Both need a good port and cams . With the N54 you have an N53 head option , what about the N55 ? Maybe thats an option you need too.

Lets see what the N55 platform actually does . So far none of what you are alluding to is revealed "yet" as a performance edge for the motor ,such that you would switch out your popped N54 to drop an N55 in.
I think the N55 was BMW flogging a dead n54 horse till they developed the B58.

Thus far I see no compelling data in terms of real world performance . The N54 and N55 comparison around reliabillity and servicable parts is like comparing poo you stepped in. These are not the paradigm of service free car ownership. Maybe due to a few parts the N55 is slightly less fresh poo. But, the list of service parts is still offensive.

To finish the debate. Talk about product development whilst exciting , is also cheap. Settle it on the track. Put up your times and wins. Looking forward to seeing that which s good news for BMW folks in general.

[F87Source]

All 4 of your points are quite weak.
Each make assumptions that are really jusy hasty generalisations.
Let me highlight what I mean.
1) There is a very clear path to smooth FBO and OTS tunes on N54. The prerequisites for this are the same for any car not jusy N54/55 but, all vehicles. Unless you are arguing that there have been zero cases of poorly maintained , dodgy tuners and FBO parts applied.
The development of tunes have been at FBO 'smooth' for a long time.
2) as above.
3) i make that power with twins in the factory location. My car runs 10s on street tyres, goes around corners with massive upgraded brakes and I daily it , pick up the kids in it. Low mount turbo kits have been around for the N54 for ages.
4) lots more assumptions here , Im also going to point out that at those power levels , regardless of car /brand "factory like" is a relative term . You have a very long list of mods to make a 1000hp car 'relatively' reliable with a far more frequent service and mechanical failure intervals purely from the laws of thermo dynamics. People who dont know better run around saying 1000hp cars are trouble free. I can tell you 700whp is also in that spectrum
The EFR turbos is a whole other topic you raise and yes you can run them on N54s . The internal gate setup on that 9280 is ok but, you wont see it make its power potenti on a 3L, you will be switching it to external.
There are plenty of other turbos Id be thinking a better choice for the 3L. Please keep in mind there are folk running low mount 1k+ turbos around on N54 you might not have realised that.

All your other assertions about faster spool etc are incorrect, do you really thing the factory manifold is the peak of flow design for 1000+HP. This is a system we are talking about . At 1000whp you are going to want to pull that N55 head off and port it and so on, maybe including sleaving the block (how much stronger is the N55 block? I have heard its weaker). Now have you considered any differences between the n54 and 55 there? Perhpas not? Both need a good port and cams . With the N54 you have an N53 head option , what about the N55 ? Maybe thats an option you need too.

Lets see what the N55 platform actually does . So far none of what you are alluding to is revealed "yet" as a performance edge for the motor ,such that you would switch out your popped N54 to drop an N55 in.
I think the N55 was BMW flogging a dead n54 horse till they developed the B58.

Thus far I see no compelling data in terms of real world performance . The N54 and N55 comparison around reliabillity and servicable parts is like comparing poo you stepped in. These are not the paradigm of service free car ownership. Maybe due to a few parts the N55 is slightly less fresh poo. But, the list of service parts is still offensive.

To finish the debate. Talk about product development whilst exciting , is also cheap. Settle it on the track. Put up your times and wins. Looking forward to seeing that which s good news for BMW folks in general.

That's because all my other points fell on deaf ears (eyes in this case because it's a post?) So I made it as easy to come across as possible.

Generally speaking you will see alot more issues with the n54 compared to the n55 when tuning or even stock. The n54 just has alot of hard ware flaws that create these issues.


Stage 3 turbos don't use the stock manifold, they have an upgraded tubular manifold style design that has been flow tested in computer simulations to ensure they're capable of the high volumes of exhaust gasses needed for the particular turbos they use. This was also a thing: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1228123
Equal length runner style manifolds but I think they deemed it not necessary.


Iin terms of strength most n55 guys haven't had a need to get a built motor so that's a good sign for durability at the power levels we're seeing. Even the stage 3 guys seem to be ok. In terms of block strength it should be on par with the n54, for an open deck block you'll need to sleve and or close the deck when going to 1k HP.


The s55 head has been tested at 1k+ whp and that should fit the n55. Typical head and valvetrain job would need to be done like you alluded to, not a stranger to that since I had alot of high power sti's. Tyspeeds m2 has had that done for track purposes though.



What else, umm if you have an n54 and it pops clearly don't put in an n55 unless you want to spend a crap ton of money converting alot of other stuff to make it work. Put in the same motor you had from the beginning.


I think the n55 was bmw trying to improve the n54 incrementally since it's a recent step back to a turbo engine. I think bmw succeeded, and with that data they built the b58 which is almost perfect (small little hick ups but dang near perfect). I really really like the b58, closed deck block, air 2 water intercooler, really the latest and greatest tech went into that engine.


Like I said the n55 just recently got larger turbos (literally it was one turbo option until recently) and important mods to make power so you're gonna have to wait to see times, you won't be seeing it from me since I don't care about straight line speed I care about lap times.


But agreed seeing development is good for bmw folks overall.


Overall I'm pretty done with this thread, remember I never started this thread to argue. It spawned from a post about some n55's having forged cranks and it's a misconception that all of them have cast cranks, and I stated the facts about how the n55 improved on the n54 and what technology makes it a better engine (literally only the first page of this thread had any real talk before it went down hill). Then sticky turned it into a whole thread probably for the clicks and inevitable arguements. I never really asked for an argument since like I said from the beginning I respect the n54 and what it has done for bmw, and I don't hate on it at all. But I have to unobjectively point out that technology has gotten better and with that new tech the n55 is indeed an advancement over the n54 and it is a better architecture, same for b58 to n55 and so on so forth until the end of combustion engines, unless they messup and make a crappy engine one year.


With that I'm outta here, I don't want to waste anymore time rehashing the same stuff.

[Torgus]

Btw since you can only look at things from a power perspective, compare the F series n55 vs n54 in the following ways:

1) FBO: a FBO F series n55 even with an ots map makes clean, smooth consistent power zero issues. An n54 will often have misfires, 30ff codes, waste gate rattle etc.

2) 500 whp upgraded turbos: Again the n55 will make smooth factory like power, the n54 will often misfire, stutter, and run into driveability issues.

3) 600-700 whp: same story smooth factory like power on the n55, the engine bay looks stock with the same factory turbo placement and boost control. An n54 will now start fowling o2 sensors, still have driveability issues like misfires, stutters, and half check engine lights with even more consistency. If you go single turbo on the n54 then you now bring heat to the top of the engine bay where you don't want it, so you have even more limited turbo option.

4) surpassing 700 whp: the same will occur as the above situations n55 running like factory with better tuning solutions, better boost control, and better fuelling. And since the F series n55 has so much clearance by the passenger frame rail you can even run an efr 9280 in that spot so factory turbo mounting for a 1k HP turbo, shorter runners means faster spool too. And with the efr you get a built in diverter valve and stock ewg control. No need for top mounts and external waste gates and standalone ecus to complicate tuning and boost control further adding to the potential of driveability issues. Then with a potential s55 fuelling setup and upgraded injectors watch and see super high power on DI alone, or sequential canbus controlled full safety PI.


So how is the n54 better? It simply isn't in any way, the only talking point the n54 has is for now it's faster. But that's a weak talking point because serious mods for the n55 only just came out.


Like I said just wait, late stage tuning, turbo upgrades, and fuelling are just starting to arrive. Most F series guys were also restricted to fricken street tires for drag use because no drag wheels would fit properly on the m sport brakes, the m2 guys especially with their 370mm rotors.

Please update this thread when the n55 tops an n54 performance record: 1/4, 1/2, WHP, etc.

It better be soon with everything you are saying , I kid.

I like the information you are providing, but some of it is a bit misleading:

#1 and #2 : If maintenance is up to date and the turbos are not shot OTS and custom maps work fine with ZERO missfires, 30FF, etc. The n54 stock twins just stomps the small n55 stock turbo.

#3 N54 has had bottom mount single turbo kits that make the engine bay look basically stock for about 8-9 years. Now there are a 4 kits on the market, maybe more by now.

#4 People have fit EFRs both top and bottom mount on the N54. Have you driven a car with a boostbox? The factory DME controls everything like stock. Shorter runners? A log is a log style manifold.



The n55 was an improvement in many ways from the n54. Power was not really one of them. Hopefully for the sake of N55 owners it can start putting down decent numbers.

[7plagues]

That's because all my other points fell on deaf ears (eyes in this case because it's a post?) So I made it as easy to come across as possible.

Generally speaking you will see alot more issues with the n54 compared to the n55 when tuning or even stock. The n54 just has alot of hard ware flaws that create these issues.


Stage 3 turbos don't use the stock manifold, they have an upgraded tubular manifold style design that has been flow tested in computer simulations to ensure they're capable of the high volumes of exhaust gasses needed for the particular turbos they use. This was also a thing: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1228123
Equal length runner style manifolds but I think they deemed it not necessary.


Iin terms of strength most n55 guys haven't had a need to get a built motor so that's a good sign for durability at the power levels we're seeing. Even the stage 3 guys seem to be ok. In terms of block strength it should be on par with the n54, for an open deck block you'll need to sleve and or close the deck when going to 1k HP.


The s55 head has been tested at 1k+ whp and that should fit the n55. Typical head and valvetrain job would need to be done like you alluded to, not a stranger to that since I had alot of high power sti's. Tyspeeds m2 has had that done for track purposes though.



What else, umm if you have an n54 and it pops clearly don't put in an n55 unless you want to spend a crap ton of money converting alot of other stuff to make it work. Put in the same motor you had from the beginning.


I think the n55 was bmw trying to improve the n54 incrementally since it's a recent step back to a turbo engine. I think bmw succeeded, and with that data they built the b58 which is almost perfect (small little hick ups but dang near perfect). I really really like the b58, closed deck block, air 2 water intercooler, really the latest and greatest tech went into that engine.


Like I said the n55 just recently got larger turbos (literally it was one turbo option until recently) and important mods to make power so you're gonna have to wait to see times, you won't be seeing it from me since I don't care about straight line speed I care about lap times.


But agreed seeing development is good for bmw folks overall.


Overall I'm pretty done with this thread, remember I never started this thread to argue. It spawned from a post about some n55's having forged cranks and it's a misconception that all of them have cast cranks, and I stated the facts about how the n55 improved on the n54 and what technology makes it a better engine (literally only the first page of this thread had any real talk before it went down hill). Then sticky turned it into a whole thread probably for the clicks and inevitable arguements. I never really asked for an argument since like I said from the beginning I respect the n54 and what it has done for bmw, and I don't hate on it at all. But I have to unobjectively point out that technology has gotten better and with that new tech the n55 is indeed an advancement over the n54 and it is a better architecture, same for b58 to n55 and so on so forth until the end of combustion engines, unless they messup and make a crappy engine one year.


With that I'm outta here, I don't want to waste anymore time rehashing the same stuff.

Good luck out there. Glad you could share your passion for the N55 with us and how you will not be taking it to the extremes.

[Torgus]

Good luck out there. Glad you could share your passion for the N55 with us and how you will not be taking it to the extremes.

lol

[RnmEvo9]

Good luck out there. Glad you could share your passion for the N55 with us and how you will not be taking it to the extremes.

I genuinely lol'd

[Torgus]

I ran out of time to edit my post because of a phone call:

Hopefully the N55 get's the attention it needs. My concern would be the newer engines and their potential which is where tuners and companies will want to be spending their time as it is more lucrative.

The advantage the N54 has is there are a lot more kits and products out there to get to the power level people want. Twins to Singles. The N55 was never the engine to 'buy for power' or for serious modifications. Maybe that will change as the cars become less expensive and all the features mentioned come to fruition?

[7plagues]

I genuinely lol'd

Glad I could bring some joy today in this trash stock market/economy.

[RTA]

I think someone should find a Jamaican finest, something like n54 skunk with N55 Haze,light it up and enjoy the though that so many people enjoy all these engines.. s85, n54, n55, n58... all great stuff.... ;-)