Any have experiences about Treadstone fuel pumps?

[-335i-]

I'm designing twin pump setup for my N54. This will be running with PWM booster, controlled by original fuel pump module. That should prevent the pressure oscillation compared to 2nd pump with relay control. Well, right now electronics are not the first priority. Basic PWM booster is really easy to build, but maybe there could be fail safe function if one of the pumps stop working, maybe external connector for the full power signal and 12v to 15V booster too.

2 x 450 Walbro's seems to produce way too much fuel for my needs (theoretically 60 litre tank depleted in 6 min @ PWM 100%)... and the size of the pumps does make the design a bit too packed.

So, does anyone have any experience about Treadstone Performance TRE 340 pumps? The flow charts looks ok, claims to be E85 compatible and they're giving 3 years warranty for those? Google did find very little about the pumps. They look pretty much like Deatschwerks DW300... and what I've read, those DW's are not so reliable?

Any info is appreciated.

Some sketching single 450 vs double tre300...

[Payam@BMS]

You and @SteveAZ need to talk lol

[-335i-]

You and @SteveAZ need to talk lol

lol... I'm building this for myself, not for sale.

[boost junkie]

lol... I'm building this for myself, not for sale.

Damn you

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

Cool drawings...that's a lot of work for a one off pump assembly.

Those pumps look to be a knock off or re-brand of the AEM 320 pumps.

[-335i-]

Cool drawings...that's a lot of work for a one off pump assembly.

Those pumps look to be a knock off or re-brand of the AEM 320 pumps.

Actually it was pretty fast to draw and it's quite relaxing hobby.

I just can't reason why they did everything so complicated with twisted angles etc. The molds might have been very difficult to machine. Now when the bucket is drawn, I can easily try different kind of setups and compare those to stock.

So there's also AEM + Aeromotive and some no-brand china versions with similar design... probably all from the same manufacturer?

Size of these would make the cover design easy. First I was thinking to use short 65 DW's but after reading the reliability issues, those are not going in my car.

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

Going to do the whole thing out of SS? That's a heck of a project if so!

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of them do come out of the same factory.

Somebody sent me some re-branded AEM 320 pumps and they looked and performed identically. It's probably similar to what TRW does when they sell BMW "M" components where they simply grind off the insignia.

I can tell you VDO does the same thing as the only difference between a VDO assembly and a "BMW" branded VDO assembly is that the part numbers in the lid are etched off, otherwise they perform identical...same with Spectra and a few others...just a re-branded VDO but in most cases not any cheaper. However, I've also seen a knock off of the VDO pump that to the uninformed eye looks about the same but is notably less quality, flows less, and is louder. So I don't know if those came out of the same factory utilizing cheaper components or what...but there was a big difference. In our case it didn't matter as they all end up in the scrap bin anyway.

So basically...unless you plan to do actual testing, I'd stick with the known brands or you may end up with something that is lesser quality than what you bargained for.

[-335i-]

Going to do the whole thing out of SS? That's a heck of a project if so!

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of them do come out of the same factory.

Somebody sent me some re-branded AEM 320 pumps and they looked and performed identically. It's probably similar to what TRW does when they sell BMW "M" components where they simply grind off the insignia.

I can tell you VDO does the same thing as the only difference between a VDO assembly and a "BMW" branded VDO assembly is that the part numbers in the lid are etched off, otherwise they perform identical...same with Spectra and a few others...just a re-branded VDO but in most cases not any cheaper. However, I've also seen a knock off of the VDO pump that to the uninformed eye looks about the same but is notably less quality, flows less, and is louder. So I don't know if those came out of the same factory utilizing cheaper components or what...but there was a big difference. In our case it didn't matter as they all end up in the scrap bin anyway.

So basically...unless you plan to do actual testing, I'd stick with the known brands or you may end up with something that is lesser quality than what you bargained for.

Thanks Steve, you're great!

So I guess I'm going to do this with Walbro, Bosch or Denso then. Actually, I was plannig to make a new top cover for the bucket out of Delrin. The cover will be having chamber for the fuel with G1/8 or G1/4 tapping for the fuel fitting. I'm going to use screw in bundy fitting but If I need to update the fuel lines, there's also possibility to use barb or AN fittings. Also there will be screw adjusted venturi feed line. The venturi itself is similar to my 450 setup. Routing the pipe to the venturi is going to be much easier from the chamber.

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

Ha, that sounds cool. I was just thinking earlier..."if he's going to go to that much trouble and if expense and time are irrelevant, do something creative and cool". Sounds like you're going to do just that.

You mention E85 compatibility...will you be running ethanol?

You said you want more capacity than your 450 bucket...are you making enough power to need more than that or is this mostly just messing around?

Unless you are doing some BIG power upgrades... Given you're not targeting as much flow as our Stage 3 that just did 829whp/781wtq on E50 but uses the stock fuel lines in the tank...it's not likely you'll need to upgrade them.

[-335i-]

Ha, that sounds cool. I was just thinking earlier..."if he's going to go to that much trouble and if expense and time are irrelevant, do something creative and cool". Sounds like you're going to do just that.

You mention E85 compatibility...will you be running ethanol?

You said you want more capacity than your 450 bucket...are you making enough power to need more than that or is this mostly just messing around?

Unless you are doing some BIG power upgrades... Given you're not targeting as much flow as our Stage 3 that just did 829whp/781wtq on E50 but uses the stock fuel lines in the tank...it's not likely you'll need to upgrade them.

Yep, creative & cool are the words. It's time consuming and I'm not going to rush on it, just doing it whenever I have free time & interests. The costs are not actually rising so high when I'm doing most of the the job myself. I have SS stuff lying around & friend from the plastic company who can provide the material + even do the CNC work if need any.

It seems that the E85 is a way to go as soon as they're finnished building proper E85 station network here. I'm not so exited about meth, neither jumping around to fill up the mixtures of E85 and race gas will cost too much for 24/7 use.

450's capacity is fine for me... for now. but later on I'll be needing more flow (E85 + turbos). So basically I'm just messing around, having fun building things. There's also a sketches about electric wg actuators for N54, buried on the bottom of the drawer.

My "goal" is to have about max. 500-600 litres/hour setup. If the 2nd pump fails, there's still more fuel than stock pump can provide. Main interest are in the electronics; to build the PWM booster which can run the pumps with 15 V. Simple booster is only needing few simple components (IFR1404 mosfer, diodes, etc.) but the other features are bit more complicated.

[Aerotest]

Off topic but I read last night the GM LT1/4 engines are using a 70psi lpfp as well. Hopefully this will accelerate the aftermarket in 70psi pumps.

[-335i-]

Off topic but I read last night the GM LT1/4 engines are using a 70psi lpfp as well. Hopefully this will accelerate the aftermarket in 70psi pumps.

Hope so, there's really not many proper 70psi pumps out there.

I got some salvage stuff which might be used for testing i.e. very cool industrial grade hall sensor based flow meter. Measure range is from 5 to 800 litres/h and accuracy is 0,8% on range from 5 to 15 bar!! Guess I'm going to test the short DW's or Treadstones after all. Those short ones would be exellent what comes to fitment.

[-335i-]

Okay, Got a little time to do some flow simulations for the SS venturi. Without any design improvements that little thing feeds the bucket very nicely: 784 l/h (207 gal/h). Normally, the simulation accuracy is about 3% compared to real life testing. There's some possibilities to improve the venturi performance but I want to keep it simple and the flow rate is more than enough.

[-335i-]

I've been making more flow simulations with the complete bucket system. The single Walbro 450 (355lph @70psi) maximum output seems to be somewhere near 280-295 lph @ 72psi. The venturi is playing a big part on this... If the capacity is too high it's just circulating the fuel in the tank with the cost of the outcome. Too small venturi just can't keep filling up the bucket on max flow demand. Venturi need at least 60 lph to feed the bucket with 296 lph flow rate.

With twin Walbros (710 lph) the venturi would need at least 120-130 lph to feed the bucket with proper amount of fuel. So the outcome in optimal setup would be around 580 lph.