N55 over 500 horsepower on pump fuel using only direct injection - Xtreme-DI HPFP fitted F31 335i makes 512 horsepower

[Sticky]

No doubt there are those who are skeptical of Xtreme-DI's claims with their upgraded direct injection HPFP's (high pressure fuel pumps) but just take a look at this N55 for proof. It is making over 500 crank horsepower using the direct injection system on pump gas.

Suffice it to say, that is not possible on the factory direct fuel injection system alone.

The turbocharger is an upgraded Pure Stage 2 unit:

DervTech Tuning was able to make this happen with their software expertise:

This 335i has been to us a few times over the years, firstly for a custom map, going from the stock 306hp and giving high 300's, then back to have the Pure Turbos stage 1 unit fitted, giving 400hp and now back to have the Xtreme-DI LLC big fuel pump and Pure Turbos stage 2 hybrid unit fitted.

Mapping this was no mean feat; as the ECU's entire concept of cylinder fill, load request and temperature modelling go out the window... with at least 150 dyno pulls, over about 4 or 5 days we got to where we were happy with the drivability, mixtures / boost were all sensible and we were seeing over 500hp.

The final numbers were 512hp, and 723nm @ the flywheel, 459hp @ the wheels (in 6th gear) and serious weapon on the road!

We included our fully switchable solution, allowing pops and bangs on over-run in sport / sport +, with comfort and eco being much more sedate.

No doubt people will want to see how this setup holds up with miles on it but clearly we are well into the era of upgraded HPFP tuning in the N55 world.

[135idct]

the max boost on ps2 on pump 93 ~16-17psi, after installing the XDI-HPFP how much more boost they can push on pump 93? ? ? ??

who cares about fly wheel numbers, WHP? boost? LOG?

[Sticky]

the max boost on ps2 on pump 93 ~16-17psi, after installing the XDI-HPFP how much more boost they can push on pump 93? ? ? ??

who cares about fly wheel numbers, WHP? boost? LOG?

Well, they do show the wheel hp number on the graph if you take a look.

Also, different dynos read differently so what their whp number is may be meaningless in comparison if not familiar with the dyno type and how it reads.

In this instance the crank hp readouts make the most sense to go on because that is how they baselined with each upgrade increment.

[135idct]

Well, they do show the wheel hp number on the graph if you take a look.

Also, different dynos read differently so what their whp number is may be meaningless in comparison if not familiar with the dyno type and how it reads.

In this instance the crank hp readouts make the most sense to go on because that is how they baselined with each upgrade increment.

what about max boost on pump 93 after installing the xdi hpfp?

[Sticky]

what about max boost on pump 93 after installing the xdi hpfp?

I don't have an answer for you there.

[SeanWRT]

Why sticky aren't you skeptical about this result? A unfamiliar dynamometer and no baseline. Keep in mind whatever pump you have, when properly tuned, N55 is more octane limited than anything else. There is only so much boost with PS2 that pump gas can handle above 5k rpm where peak power is made.

A 335i on that setup can hardly break 420whp (dynojet std correction) let me be completely honest. Of course you can argue 420whp dynojet number is 500 crank. But you can do that with or without this pump. That is the point.

[F87Source]

Stock hpfps can't break the 420whp mark with good afrs, especially not on the track where the ECU dumps fuel to cool estimated IAT's, ask rwalker he had alot of experience and repeatable tests with this on the F series n55. I think the best way to know for sure is to also get afr readings with a baseline, logs would be great too.

I've heard alot about these xdi pumps on the other forums and have heard multiple great results so they should be legit imo. Plus the xdi guys have a great rep on pro racing development iirc.

[SeanWRT]

It's not the xdi pump to have doubt on. It's the octane vs fueling, which comes first.

Later N55 EWGs with good hybrid can make 420whp+ on best AFR no issue all day every day. My track proven map does much more than that. Stop imagining things and tune/test the car for yourself.

At the end of day, i dont even think this thread is about track tune at all.

Stock hpfps can't break the 420whp mark with good afrs, especially not on the track where the ECU dumps fuel to cool estimated IAT's, ask rwalker he had alot of experience and repeatable tests with this on the F series n55. I think the best way to know for sure is to also get afr readings with a baseline, logs would be great too.

I've heard alot about these xdi pumps on the other forums and have heard multiple great results so they should be legit imo. Plus the xdi guys have a great rep on pro racing development iirc.

[F87Source]

I did tune for myself, and hired a professional tuner as did many others..... I never said it was the xdi pump, I said to end all uncertainty afrs would be nice to have, as your last post made it sound like the xdi pump wasn't helping as flywheel power ratings where too close to the wheel ratings which were already achieveable.

We couldn't even touch 420whp on the stock hpfp without afrs tapering off to super lean conditions at the high end of the rev range.... It's not octane limited alot of other users on stage 2's have hit 450-475 whp on 93 octane once PI was added. Maybe you have poor fuel quality in your area, but others with octane rated in anti knock index (aki) have been able to exceed 420whp on pump gas.

[SeanWRT]

I have RON98 (that lives up to its octane rating) in my area, and from numerous testing and datalog comparing, I'm pretty sure it's been always better than USA fuel (93OCT).

On good hybrid N55 does 16~17psi up top on low 12s of AFR no issue at all, unless your gasoline has 10~15% ethanol to begin with (I have zero).

And no, absolutely no N55 (stock turbo) can properly hit 450+whp (dynojet) on 93OCT whatever fueling mods they have. Not remotely possible. Don't be fooled by vendor with the claim that they can't really back up facts. Even 410~420whp would take a perfectly dialed in tune on a very cool day and extremely happy reading dynojet. And I'm sure consistency is out of window, meaning it'd run like a $#@! in summer on this 420whp map.

BTW, I saw a lot of your posts everywhere with a lot more thinking and wishing than doing. And you seem to always neglect the fact that hybrid turbo with bigger turbine can and will make more power at same boost with lower back pressure (Not because of lower IAT). Proper 93AKI/98RON and STG2 hybrid turbo get you 430~450whp at 16~18psi, depending on IAT. And again, AFR will NOT lean out, it's steadily at low 12s. I have literally tons of log showing that. And I track that kind of map, six 30-min sections in a row on 100F day on F1 track showing that.

I did tune for myself, and hired a professional tuner as did many others..... I never said it was the xdi pump, I said to end all uncertainty afrs would be nice to have, as your last post made it sound like the xdi pump wasn't helping as flywheel power ratings where too close to the wheel ratings which were already achieveable.

We couldn't even touch 420whp on the stock hpfp without afrs tapering off to super lean conditions at the high end of the rev range.... It's not octane limited alot of other users on stage 2's have hit 450-475 whp on 93 octane once PI was added. Maybe you have poor fuel quality in your area, but others with octane rated in anti knock index (aki) have been able to exceed 420whp on pump gas.

[Sticky]

Why sticky aren't you skeptical about this result? A unfamiliar dynamometer and no baseline.

Because they are more than proven IMO in the domestic world.

The pumps are not the issue. If anything, it will be software integrating them in BMW tuning that is the problem.

[F87Source]

That might be the issue gas here in North America may contain 10% ethanol in the 93 octane maybe putting more strain on the hpfp resulting in afrs having to be tapered on the top end.

Yes they can make 450whp on pump gas and consistently Google the tracking guys that have done it, they control iats with a super rich afr and a quality intercooler.

You're talking about me doing wishing and thinking, I'm not even going to get into this arguement but your gpower turbo thread mentioned you using an ots map. How can you even expect to maximize power with that? You also talk how to you favor ignition timing over boost, well no wonder your car is so suseptible to high iats, the car pulls timing as a compensation for temperature...

I don't neglect that a larger turbo makes more power at lower boost, but you fail to realize it makes more power because it flows more air. That means it needs to also use more fuel to ensure the afrs don't go lean putting more stress on the hpfp. You don't get more power without the expenses of fuel. It's not as simple as more boost = more power in this case.

Finally you talk like your experiences are conclusive when I've seen many other track guys pushing their car in actual competitions complain they run into issues with logs to prove it. That's more than one guy, leading me to believe you either aren't pushing or arent capable of pushing your car to the limits on the track, or you can't hold a consistent lap. So I'm going to go with data I've seen from 3 different forums and over 5 different drivers report the same issues that occur where the car will dump fuel to compensate for egt (which is extrapolated as our cars don't have an egt sensor) causing hpfp to crash.

Oh and just to let you know, when I tune my car for the track I don't use off the shelf maps, I send logs of my car on a Dyno for calibration then logs of me on the track as a finalization to make sure the tune suits my car on the track. I even had my m235i before obd2 flashing was available flash tuned by pulling out the ecu every single time an alteration was required to reflash just to get the timing properly for ps2 + jb4 so I have plenty of experience doing this.

At the end of the day all this forum talk won't matter you just do whatever you want and I'll do my own thing. I just use these discussions to get a baseline of what to expect so I don't go in blind. Then I'll look at my own data and compare it vs stock. I'm not expecting to compare it to others as all cars are different and subjected to different environments.

[F87Source]

Btw Sean, I don't mean to harp on you I respect your insight and wouldn't have heard about G power turbos if it wasn't for your thread.

However when I see your results vs many others with similar issues with their hpfp I tend to side with the many individuals over the single individual without any issues.

I was in a similar situation as yours years ago with my m235i and hearing about the hpfp crash by many others but never experiencing it myself. I thought maybe their cars had a defect I had never experienced it before, especially on the street. What I heard was if you did 4+ back to back WOT 4th gear runs into redline and shift into 5th the car would think egts were too high and dump fuel to cool down the egts, causing the hpfp to crash. I couldn't test this because where I live the roads were too sketchy to hit those speeds after winter causing huge pot holes, and I clearly can't turn around to run back to back on the track. So I was skeptical until I hit the Dyno for my flash tune and tested what those guys said, and it turned out that the car actually did fuel dump causing the hpfp to crash. Long story short that's why I think it's a hpfp issue, and why I side with multiple individuals achieving similar results.

Also the environment you push your car also plays a factor, straight wide open tracks don't cause your car to heat up as much as tight little tracks due to lack of high air flow.

Also when you said I wish more than I do, I like to brainstorm, conceptualize my end goal and see if it's possible before I dump loads of money into a project and fund out it won't work. It's the same reason why I had to dump my m235i as it would cost way too much to make it a track capable car vs. the m2 with the oiling at high G force issue, and the reason why I don't want to switch to an m2c due to cost: performance ratio.

[SeanWRT]

No I don't use OTS. I logged it to create a baseline, that's all. I've always been on custom. And no, my car is not susceptible to IAT, way less so than other cars with high boost.

And, let's not go further and bring more irrelevant things. That fueling is not a requirement on pump gas has always been my point. Let's drop it there.

Thanks.

[F87Source]

Although I and many others have found the stock hpfp to be limiting before octane was a factor here in North America, I agree with you that we should drop this debate here, and individual users should do what they see fit for their cars and use scenarios.

[135idct]

What about this 5k$ duel HPFP N55

http://tuningtechfs.com/ttfs-n55-dua...ctory-upgrade/

[F87Source]

It's the s55 setup so it's capable of what the s55 is capable of, probably not needed untill we surpass 550whp. I heard from ttfs the xdi-hpfp-60 could deliver up to 600whp+ iirc so imo I'd go that route first, and then if I needed even more fuel I think they offer the dual xdi-hpfp-60, which would be imo the most logical next upgrade.

[maxnix]

Well, they do show the wheel hp number on the graph if you take a look.

Also, different dynos read differently so what their whp number is may be meaningless in comparison if not familiar with the dyno type and how it reads.

It is a little weird to me that torque and horsepower cross below 5K rpm instead of 5252 rpm.

Seems like if these turbos are more efficient and the fuel system can deliver, there should be even more power at 6500 rpm or so.

Perhaps someone who is more adept at reading these graphs can explain?

[KevinC39]

Maxnix, on the graph horsepower is in BHP and Torque is in NM. That's why it looks weird

[zinner]

I feel like this pump is more about an exhibition of the different dyno technologies than fuel injection upgrades.

How about a dynojet sae/std where the baseline is like 270whp ?

[Sticky]

What about this 5k$ duel HPFP N55

http://tuningtechfs.com/ttfs-n55-dua...ctory-upgrade/

They are offering this a retrofit for the N55B30T0 and I assume the N55 as well.

[Sticky]

It is a little weird to me that torque and horsepower cross below 5K rpm instead of 5252 rpm.

As stated previously, torque is in Nm not lb-ft.

[Sticky]

@Frank@ttfs or @TTFS may be able to explain the setup better