E46 M3 S54 headers

[GG///M3]

How do they perform. Any data on this?


Thanks

[stosh1]

According to the info. I've seen for these headers, the primary tubes are listed at 1 7/8", that is (IMO) way too large for an NA E46...possibly even too large for a S/C application as well. Based on the recent disappointing dyno results that we've conducted on a couple of Epic header (which have large primaries as well) equipped NA cars...I would steer clear from either of these headers for an NA application.

[THATDONFC]

According to the info. I've seen for these headers, the primary tubes are listed at 1 7/8", that is (IMO) way too large for an NA E46...possibly even too large for a S/C application as well. Based on the recent disappointing dyno results that we've conducted on a couple of Epic header (which have large primaries as well) equipped NA cars...I would steer clear from either of these headers for an NA application.

We have not done any testing with these headers on an NA car because they were not designed for it. We have sold a few sets to guys that were NA but I don't have any data from them. I do agree that 1 7/8" is too big for a fairly stock NA car.

[GG///M3]

Thanks for the info guys. stosh1 which headers have you tested?

[stosh1]

Thanks for the info guys. stosh1 which headers have you tested?

Pick one...we've dyno'd pretty much every header currently on the market.

[curiouz_g]

Would these RMS headers be better than lets say the SS V1?

[GG///M3]

Pick one...we've dyno'd pretty much every header currently on the market.

I'll list a few.

Bimmerworld Pacesetter headers

Status Gruppe Headers

AP headers

Fabspeed Headers

SS headers.

AA headers.

I would love to see a thread with all this info. Also whats ur take on 200 cell cats vs 400 cell cats. I'm concerned about nasty fumes without cats, so for cats are a must.

Thanks.

Sticky maybe you can name this thread the Headers thread for S54's?

[stosh1]

Would these RMS headers be better than lets say the SS V1?

Yeah, if we had 400cu.in+ engines!

I'll list a few.

Bimmerworld Pacesetter headers

Status Gruppe Headers

AP headers

Fabspeed Headers

SS headers.

AA headers.

I would love to see a thread with all this info. Also whats ur take on 200 cell cats vs 400 cell cats. I'm concerned about nasty fumes without cats, so for cats are a must.

Thanks.

Sticky maybe you can name this thread the Headers thread for S54's?

All of the headers that you listed are functional identical enough (dare I say that some on that list are even produced in the same factory), that all will be within 1-2HP of each other. I believe that the AP headers are still manufactured from 316SS (more heat/corrosion resistant), while the others IIRC are 304SS...for our purposes the 304SS should be sufficient for just about every application. The only header that makes slightly more power are the SS V1's.

200 cell CAT's will flow slightly better than 400 cell CAT's (we're talking maybe 3-5HP), and will eliminate practically any "nasty" fumes. I've run 100 cell CAT's (which flow even better), and they still eliminate that 'gas' smell. Hell, even going catless (if you're tuned correctly), there won't be any noticeable fumes...but that opens up a whole 'nother potential legal can of worms.

[GG///M3]

Yeah, if we had 400cu.in+ engines!




All of the headers that you listed are functional identical enough (dare I say that some on that list are even produced in the same factory), that all will be within 1-2HP of each other. I believe that the AP headers are still manufactured from 316SS (more heat/corrosion resistant), while the others IIRC are 304SS...for our purposes the 304SS should be sufficient for just about every application. The only header that makes slightly more power are the SS V1's.

200 cell CAT's will flow slightly better than 400 cell CAT's (we're talking maybe 3-5HP), and will eliminate practically any "nasty" fumes. I've run 100 cell CAT's (which flow even better), and they still eliminate that 'gas' smell. Hell, even going catless (if you're tuned correctly), there won't be any noticeable fumes...but that opens up a whole 'nother potential legal can of worms.

I have the kid in the car at times, so I want the least amount of fumes. What did the Euro specs cars run in terms of cats cell rating?

[stosh1]

I have the kid in the car at times, so I want the least amount of fumes. What did the Euro specs cars run in terms of cats cell rating?

There's been alot of controversy over the CPSI rating of Euro CAT's, but I believe the general consensus is that they are 200 cell.

[curiouz_g]

Yeah, if we had 400cu.in+ engines!

How about 9lbs of boost Just trying to figure out if its a worthwhile swap from M3an one headers to RMS ones. If its anything less than 10whp, I probably wont do it since I'm lazy hah

[GG///M3]

There's been alot of controversy over the CPSI rating of Euro CAT's, but I believe the general consensus is that they are 200 cell.

Interesting. I may have found a set of AP headers new locally for a great deal, so I may jump on them very soon.

What kind of results have you seen with them?

[Sticky]

Sticky maybe you can name this thread the Headers thread for S54's?

Sure.

There are also Euro headers for sale in the classifieds if you want a cheap solution that works well.

[folgrz]

Good thread I'm looking for a set of headers eventually...

Basically all of the headers out there make the same power. The only ones that I've seen that make a little more are the SS stepped headers.

I believe the SS stepped v1 headers you must use their section 1 as well... I'm pretty sure they revised that though with the SS V2 stepped headers and you are able to use whatever section 1 you want.

[MisterEm]

Interesting. I may have found a set of AP headers new locally for a great deal, so I may jump on them very soon.

What kind of results have you seen with them?

Get the defoulers out of the exhaust flow and you're golden with that set.

From someone who went from JVT-R's to SS v1's - the V1 headers are indeed fantastic. They change the exhaust note quite a bit over traditional euro headers but the power increase is worth it.

Norm noticed this as well going from OE Euro to SS v1's.

[GG///M3]

Get the defoulers out of the exhaust flow and you're golden with that set.

From someone who went from JVT-R's to SS v1's - the V1 headers are indeed fantastic. They change the exhaust note quite a bit over traditional euro headers but the power increase is worth it.

Norm noticed this as well going from OE Euro to SS v1's.

What are defoulers?

[MisterEm]

What are defoulers?

Turn the header upside down and look into the collector.

You will see the defoulers sticking into the exhaust stream where the 2nd oxygen sensor bung connects. AP and Fabspeed included these into the design.

They impede flow and are a lame attempt at minimizing fault codes after header installs for those running the old US software.

[GG///M3]

Turn the header upside down and look into the collector.

You will see the defoulers sticking into the exhaust stream where the 2nd oxygen sensor bung connects. AP and Fabspeed included these into the design.

They impede flow and are a lame attempt at minimizing fault codes after header installs for those running the old US software.

Interesting. Do the Status Gruppe headers have the same issue? The more I read the more I see a lot of people love the SSv1 headers.

[MisterEm]

Interesting. Do the Status Gruppe headers have the same issue? The more I read the more I see a lot of people love the SSv1 headers.

Not sure if they do, but you can have them removed for a small fee. Most folks don't care and bolt them on up.

Send a set of V1's over for a White Lightning treatment prior to install and you will never need to touch your headers again.

Take it from the guy who's done 3 header installs on jackstands. There is a reason a shop charges 7+ hours for the job.

[MisterEm]

Here is some better data with JVT-R headers, and 200 cell cats. And another run with SS v1 headers with 200 cell cats. Same tune ran at 5,800 ft elevation.

Car was falling on its face at 7,000 rpm due to a failing fuel pump - same tank of 91 (e10) gas for both runs.



Only negative with the V1's is the exhaust note, IMO. I preferred the sound from the smaller primary headers.

[GG///M3]

Here is some better data with JVT-R headers, and 200 cell cats. And another run with SS v1 headers with 200 cell cats. Same tune ran at 5,800 ft elevation.

Car was falling on its face at 7,000 rpm due to a failing fuel pump - same tank of 91 (e10) gas for both runs.

http://www.60-130.com/images/im.../pM6vlw9-1.jpg

Only negative with the V1's is the exhaust note, IMO. I preferred the sound from the smaller primary headers.

Very good info. I just don't see sending nearly 2500 bucks for the SSv1's. I found a set of AP's locally new for very very cheap compared to SS. I also found a set of cams. Both can be had for less then just the SSv1's. You are correct about most headers performing about the same, but those darn SSv1's flow very very well. It seems like a set of power pulleys, and intake elbow would easily over come the power advantage over the SS headers while still being cheaper. The thing thats killing me is that there is a group buy on the SSV1's for 1869 shipped. Which is what 400 bucks off or something like that? Have you had the car tuned yet?

[MisterEm]

Can't blame you on the price. I was spoiled with mine.

I got lucky and picked up these V1's used on E46fanatics with the S-pipe for $1700. Had the headers shipped to Swaintech for the White Lightning treatment and the S-Pipe to Jack at Custom Performance and to add a pair of HJS 200c cats. Coating is still very solid after two installs and several drops to the garage floor.

The E36 style exhaust studs used for the JVT-R's are too long for the fat primaries of the V1's on one of the studs for cylinder 6. Figured that out after having the whole job just about buttoned up... that is the only reason I had to take them off.



Took a picture during the overflow tank replacement here is what it looks like now after some abuse, an OCC fluid spill (oops), and a couple install/reinstallations.

[GG///M3]

Very nice. I like the coating. Does the stock heat shield not cover the headers anymore on the SSv1's?

[MisterEm]

Plenty of room to install the shield if you want. I chose to leave it off since the V1's are now coated.

[GG///M3]

Plenty of room to install the shield if you want. I chose to leave it off since the V1's are now coated.

Well it looks like I missed out on a deal of euro headers, but it looks like I'll be picking up a set of AP headers. I almost want to buy the V1's but I can't see myself paying that much for headers then a set of cats when thats nearly the price of a used sc kit.